
West Fraser Timber (TSX:WFG) reported third-quarter financial results on Thursday. The transcript from the company’s third-quarter earnings call has been provided below.
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Access the full call at https://app.webinar.net/dkrV6g9GME5
West Fraser Timber reported $1.36 billion in sales and $38 million in adjusted EBITDA for Q3 2026, with a margin of approximately 3%.
Strategic decisions included the indefinite curtailment of the Huguley OSB mill in Alabama and the Leola lumber mill in Arkansas to align operations with current demand.
Operational improvements were noted in the U.S. South due to completed capital investments, while higher SPF pricing in Canada positively impacted results despite challenging market conditions.
The company successfully refinanced a $300 million term loan into a $500 million term loan maturing in 2029, enhancing financial flexibility.
Future guidance suggests North American product shipments and capital expenditures will be at the lower end of the projected ranges due to ongoing market challenges.
Management emphasized maintaining a strong balance sheet, optimizing the competitive positioning of assets, and capital discipline as priorities in navigating the current market cycle.
Joelle (Investor Relations)
Forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Canadian and United States securities laws. Such statements involve certain risks and uncertainties and assumptions which may cause West Fraser Timber’s actual or future results and performance to be materially different from those expressed or implied in these statements. Additional information about the risk factors and assumptions is included both in the accompanying webcast presentation and in our 2025 annual MD&A and Annual Information Form, as updated in our quarterly MD&A, which can be accessed on West Fraser Timber’s website or through SEDAR+ for Canadian investors and EDGAR for United States investors.
I would now like to turn the conference over to Sean McLaren, President and Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thank you, Joelle. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our third quarter 2026 earnings call. I am Sean McLaren, President and CEO of West Fraser Timber. Joining me on the call today are Chris Ferostick, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer, Matt Tobin, Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing, and other members of our leadership team. On the call this morning, I’ll begin with a brief overview of West Fraser Timber’s third quarter.
Then I’ll pass the call to Chris for more detail before I share some thoughts on our outlook and offer concluding remarks. Our third quarter results reflect varying demand conditions and a mixed pricing environment. Across our product portfolio, we generated 38 million of adjusted EBITDA. Chris will walk through the financial drivers in more detail shortly. Operationally, our teams continue to focus on the things within our control. In the U.S. South, our operations continue to benefit from completed capital investments and improved operating performance year to date.
Despite challenging market conditions in Canada, higher SPF pricing contributed positively to results in the quarter. Subsequent to quarter end, as outlined in our announcement last night, we have taken steps to better align our operations with customer demand, with the indefinite curtailment of our Huguley OSB mill in Lanett, Alabama, and our lumber mill in Leola, Arkansas. These decisions are a response to evolving conditions and demand for wood products within new home construction and repair and renovation markets. These mills will be wound down by the end of this year.
Our Huguley OSB mill has annual capacity of 500 million square feet on a 3/8 basis and our Leola lumber mill has annual Southern Yellow Pine capacity of 225 million board feet. I want to thank all of our employees and their families for their hard work and contributions. We are committed to supporting them through this transition. Our focus remains on operating safely, serving our customers, improving the competitiveness of our assets, maintaining a strong balance sheet and allocating capital with discipline. With that high-level overview, I’ll now turn the call to Chris for additional detail and comments.
Chris Ferostick (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer)
Thank you, Sean, and good morning, everyone. A reminder that we report in U.S. dollars and all my references are to U.S. dollar amounts unless otherwise indicated. In the third quarter we generated sales of 1.36 billion and adjusted EBITDA of 38 million for an adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 3%. This compares with sales of 1.43 billion and adjusted EBITDA of 59 million in the second quarter. The lumber segment generated 34 million dollars of adjusted EBITDA.
We recorded a favorable adjustment to our estimated anti-dumping rate this quarter. That adjustment added 12 million dollars to our results. Pricing was roughly neutral overall. Higher SPF prices were offset by lower SYP prices. Total costs were lower, primarily reflecting lower production and shipment volumes, while total costs on a per-unit basis were roughly in line with the second quarter. In SYP, fluctuations in diesel prices influenced log haul costs, and unit manufacturing costs increased. In SPF, unit manufacturing costs increased due to higher labor and energy costs. These pressures were partially offset by lower SPF log costs as logging resumed after spring breakup.
There was also a 5 million dollar favorable swing in inventory valuation in our lumber segment. SPF shipments were in line with our expectations for the quarter and about 5% less than Q2. SYP shipments were up slightly, also in line with slightly higher production. The North America EWP segment reported an adjusted EBITDA of negative 4 million, primarily due to lower OSB prices, as our realizations were influenced by significant regional pricing fluctuations during the quarter. Higher resin costs also weighed in the quarter; however, these were partially offset by lower fiber costs and a 7 million dollar favorable inventory valuation impact as prices rose in September. In Europe we generated 4 million dollars of adjusted EBITDA.
The change from last quarter was mainly volume-related. Higher scheduled maintenance reduced OSB and MDF output, and pricing was modestly lower. Our other operating segment, which includes Cariboo Pulp and our 50% interest in Alberta Newsprint, delivered adjusted EBITDA of 5 million, representing a 13 million improvement from Q2. The improvement was driven by reduced fiber and unit manufacturing costs as well as the impact of a planned maintenance shutdown at Cariboo Pulp in the second quarter. Bridging Q2 to Q3, lower prices reduced adjusted EBITDA by approximately 23 million, mostly in North America EWP.
Releases of inventory valuation reserves across Lumber, North America EWP and Pulp added approximately 25 million and broadly offset the price impact. Higher costs in Lumber and North America EWP, including resin, labor and diesel-related log haul, contributed 13 million to higher costs. It also includes the outgoing freight costs which are charged back to our customers. The majority of the balance was influenced by reduced volumes in Europe and changes in duties and tariffs within the lumber segment.
While we continue to experience the effects of elevated oil-based input costs, particularly in diesel, resin and wax, resin and wax costs increased by approximately 3 million sequentially on top of the 13 million impact we identified in the second quarter. Our long-term supplier contracts continue to protect supply at an advantaged cost relative to the spot market. Diesel costs have increased by approximately 80% year to date, which represents an increase of approximately 15 dollars per thousand board feet on our lumber’s log costs.
In both SPF and SYP we are managing these impacts on a mill-by-mill basis, and in some areas we have reduced our logging operations in response to these higher costs. Pulpwood prices have declined significantly, offsetting much of the higher oil-related input costs. We generated 72 million dollars of cash from operations in the quarter. The quarter saw continued inventory reduction resulting in a working capital release. We invested 53 million dollars in capital and paid 25 million dollars in dividends. In September we successfully refinanced our 300 million dollar term loan into a new 500 million dollar term loan maturing in September 2029. This maintains largely consistent terms while expanding our financial flexibility.
We exited the quarter with just over 200 million dollars of cash, an undrawn 1 billion dollar revolver giving us liquidity of approximately 1.2 billion dollars and a net debt-to-capital ratio of only 6%. This flexibility enhances our capacity to effectively navigate the current phase of the cycle. Turning to duties, on October 14th, the U.S. Department of Commerce released final AR7 results setting our countervailing duty rate at 15.31% and our anti-dumping rate at 4.71%. Our combined cash deposit rate has fallen to 20.02% from 26.47% effective October 19th. This rate is currently the lowest in the industry and is below both the AR6 and preliminary AR7 rates. We expect North American product shipments, including SPF and SYP lumber, to be toward the lower end of our guidance range of 2.4 to 2.7 billion board feet and North American OSB shipments to be toward the lower end of the 5.9 to 6.3 billion square feet range on a 3/8 basis.
European OSB guidance of 1 to 1.25 billion square feet remains intact. Our capital expenditure range of 300 to 350 million is also unchanged, with 212 million spent year to date. In fiber, we expect B.C. stumpage to remain in line with Q3 while Alberta rates are expected to decrease in Q4. Given their quicker link to lumber prices in the U.S. South, we expect elevated diesel costs and harvesting and hauling constraints to continue affecting regional log costs. In North America EWP, we expect fiber costs to remain relatively stable near term. Higher diesel costs are offset by lower pulpwood prices while resin costs remain exposed to global energy developments.
With that financial overview, I’ll pass the call back to Sean.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thank you, Chris. I’ll now shift to our general outlook and offer some concluding remarks. Demand remains challenging. U.S. housing starts are running at about 1.22 million units annualized. Mortgage rates remain at higher levels, affordability conditions are more constrained, and higher inflation has impacted consumer and builder confidence, all of which are contributing to near-term demand remaining challenged, but the medium-term drivers remain in place: an aging U.S. housing stock, first-time buyers waiting to enter the housing market, and renewed policy focus on affordability.
We continue to align production with market conditions while focusing on the competitiveness of our mill network and the things within our control. SYP pricing softened in the quarter and continues to trend down. So far in Q4, log haul costs have risen as a result of increased diesel prices. Our response is to focus on what we can control. As Henderson advances through its 18 to 24 month ramp-up, we expect to see ongoing operating improvements over the period, and the indefinite curtailment of our lumber mill in Leola will allow us to focus our operating footprint more effectively.
In Canada, the lower AR7 cash deposit rate will reduce the duty deposits we pay on U.S. shipments and further support our ability to serve U.S. customers. Combined with the operating leverage across our lumber platform, we are well positioned to benefit when prices improve. In OSB, prices improved toward the end of the quarter. How quickly the market absorbs expected new supply will depend in part on the pace of recovery in residential construction. We acted quickly and decisively in making the decision to curtail our Huguley OSB mill, helping to focus on our most competitive operations. Our priority is to keep lowering our cost base, run our mills to demand, and manage working capital.
The remainder of our EWP portfolio continues to perform consistently well. In Europe, our business has performed well year to date. While we are navigating similar consumer challenges as in North America, we are leveraging sizable cost advantages. Over the longer term, we continue to see tailwinds from wider adoption of OSB and timber frame construction. Stepping back, we believe West Fraser Timber is navigating this part of the cycle from a position of strength.
We are nearing the end of a significant investment cycle, with many projects now complete or ramping up and further benefits still to be realized. At the same time, we are taking decisive actions to strengthen our portfolio and maintain financial flexibility. As demand improves, we are confident these initiatives will drive a meaningful performance improvement. Summarizing our discussion today, this was a quarter where pricing was softer in OSB and Southern Yellow Pine. Our teams responded to this by focusing on what we can control: managing costs, inventory and other working capital, and taking difficult but necessary actions to align our portfolio with current demand.
Chris Ferostick (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer)
We remain focused on disciplined execution through the cycle and continue to strengthen the long-term competitiveness of West Fraser Timber. Thank you again for your time and continued interest. We look forward to updating you next quarter. With that, we’ll turn the call back to the operator for questions.
OPERATOR
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Should you have a question, please press star followed by 1 on your touchtone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press star followed by 2. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up the handset before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question. Your first question comes from Ben Isaacson, Scotiabank.
Your line is now open.
Ben Isaacson (Analyst)
Thank you very much and good morning, everyone. Just two questions for me, Chris. The first question is what’s the purpose of the increase in debt? You had about a billion of liquidity, now you have 1.2. Why was there a need to increase that?
Chris Ferostick (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer)
Well, thanks, Ben, and good morning. You know, I think as we navigate through the uncertainty in this market, we want to make sure that we’re prepared for all eventualities—whether the market stays how it is or it improves or it gets worse, and whether there’s growth opportunities that present themselves there. So, you know, this is really around making sure that we’ve got full optionality as a management team and as a company to execute on the strategic things that may come our way as the cycle evolves here and to make sure we can focus on running the business as our number one priority and extracting the most value from the business, as opposed to a primary consideration being liquidity or debt management.
We have a very supportive bank group and, you know, in fact going back to $500 million on the term loan just takes us back to where we were in 2024, and, you know, 6% net debt to capital is an extremely low level, you know, very manageable for us. And so, you know, we tend to manage the balance sheet pretty conservatively. It’s a very small increase in debt and it just gives us the ability to continue to execute our strategy almost agnostic to market conditions.
Ben Isaacson (Analyst)
That’s perfect. And then just a follow-up question maybe for you as well, Chris. When you think about all the closures that you have announced this year and then when you think about the Henderson ramp and your continued efforts on cost optimization, if there was no change to cost structure or pricing, would there be an earnings lift or decline in 2027? I’m just trying to understand the magnitude or the offsets with what’s been taken out and what’s been added.
Chris Ferostick (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer)
Well, I think you can see in our numbers, and I think we’ve talked in some of our earlier presentations, for instance—and I wouldn’t isolate it to the journey of one particular asset here or there or decisions that have been made in the current year—if you look at our timeline over the last three to four years around optimizing this portfolio, we can produce basically the same amount of SYP today as we could two or three years ago, but with four or five fewer sites because we’ve invested capital in sites that have attributes that make them strong performers over the long term.
I think you can see in our OSB results the impact year over year. We’ve had all this cost inflation, we’ve had pricing pressure in OSB, you know, but with the decision that we had to take on High Level last year, we’ve more than mitigated a lot of those challenges on the inflation and other front. And so, at the same time as we’ve reduced the footprint and capacity and reduced cost, we still maintained a high degree of optionality to participate in upside when there is a market recovery.
Now I don’t really want to speculate on what 2027 looks like at this point in time. I think we’ll be out later this year with shipment guidance and CapEx guidance. But if there is a market recovery here, we have tremendous ability—through operating schedules, through, you know, small capital in some of our sites—to expand capacity further, to capitalize on what’s out there. So this has really been a journey for three or four years of really preparing the company to weather the downside but capitalize on the upside when it comes.
Ben Isaacson (Analyst)
That makes sense. Thanks so much.
OPERATOR
Your next question comes from Sean Stewart with TD Cowen. Your line is now open.
Sean Stewart (Analyst)
Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Sean, I’ll start with the capacity closure announcements first. Encouraged to see that. Hughley, I think I understand the context there with respect to the Arkansas sawmill. Maybe some detail on why that asset versus others? You know, it’s our understanding the fiber basket in Arkansas is attractive for this industry. And I know it’s very site-specific, but any context you can give on why that sawmill as opposed to others?
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Yeah, you bet, Sean. Good morning. You know, and I think similar to Hughley, you know, and Chris’s comments on the previous question, you know, we’re very focused on optimizing our portfolio from a competitive position to meet the demand that we see out there. And so when we look at Leola, which is in central Arkansas, you know, and really that area services the Texas market, it services west, maybe a little bit to the north too, but it primarily goes west.
We have made significant investments in East Texas. We’ve got, of course, our new mill ramping up in Henderson. We’ve got additional capacity available at New Boston, and then we’ve got our modern asset down in Lufkin at Angelina. And so we are allocating what we see as the available demand to that platform and enabling those mills to run at higher levels, which overall brings our costs down and to service that region.
Sean Stewart (Analyst)
Thanks for that, Sean. Second question. Curious on your thoughts with respect to the BC election outcome. The company hasn’t put a lot of discretionary, or much at all, towards the province in recent years. Does this change any perspective on regional capital allocation for the company going forward with respect to investment in BC?
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Yeah, you know, again, obviously very early and we don’t comment on any particular platforms. You know, and I would say when I think about British Columbia, you know, we’re very kind of pleased with our group of assets here in BC. They’re modern, they’re integrated, we’ve got a tremendous workforce. You know, regardless of the government, we continue to work with our landowner, if you will, to make sure that access to affordable, available timber is not a barrier to operations.
There’s enough challenges with market and border measures, and I guess we’ll see. We’re pleased with the early comments from the newly elected government to continue the journey to bring more wood to market and make sure that is not one of the things that prevents B.C. from being a competitive jurisdiction. Saying all of that, we continue to improve our competitive position in B.C. and feel good about our collection of assets and our integrated model.
Sean Stewart (Analyst)
Okay, thanks for that detail, that’s all I have for now.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thanks, John.
OPERATOR
Your next question comes from Keaton Mamtoro with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Keaton Mamtoro (Analyst)
Good morning and thanks for taking my question. Maybe just on the markets here a little bit, Sean or Chris, can you talk a little bit about what trends you are seeing here exiting Q3, particularly with mortgage rates moving up here? Are you seeing any signs of impact on activity levels? Not asking for specific numbers, just trying to gauge sort of the market backdrop.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Yeah, I might make just a couple of comments and then maybe ask Matt here to fill in what I miss and add in anything else. You know, from my perspective, from our perspective, I think our customers are sort of reacting the way we are. Supply is readily available and so the sense of urgency to meet the needs of their customers, I think they’re able to do that. So I think there’s a tone of caution, similar to obviously our tone of caution and our adjustments that we’re making.
So I think everybody is in a bit of a wait-and-see. But clearly the affordability issues around high mortgage rates, along with the other things that are impacting the consumer, are clearly a weight on how it might look going into 2027. I don’t know, Matt, what more would you add to that?
Matt Tobin (Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing)
I think that covers it. I think the affordability remains a headwind, and high rates and the high diesel rates puts customers in a more cautious mode, and they’re managing their working capital and servicing their customers as they need, just like we are.
Keaton Mamtoro (Analyst)
Understood, that’s helpful. And then just switching to transportation and freight cost, while just the fuel cost is a component, but also it seems like just the available capacity and other things also having a meaningful impact. Can you talk to what you are seeing at the moment and if things are starting to get better, or is that still sort of a headwind as we move into Q4 and into 27?
Matt Tobin (Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing)
Sure, I can take that one. You know, I would say that we’ve seen some easing, I would say, of availability in Q3. Usually that Q2 period is a seasonally tight period for trucking in the U.S.—a lot of product starts moving then, you know, produce, et cetera—and so it’s seasonally always a bit of a tighter quarter. And then this year we had a few extra cost pressures on top of it with high diesel rates that sort of increased the pressure in Q2. I would say despite costs remaining high, availability has improved in Q3 and usually we expect that to maintain for Q4, and despite the cost pressures, we think that we’re over the worst of it, I’d say, for availability.
Keaton Mamtoro (Analyst)
Understood, that’s helpful. I’ll jump back in the queue. Good luck.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thanks, Keaton.
OPERATOR
Your next question comes from Amir Patel with CIBC Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Amir Patel (Analyst)
Hi. Good morning, Sean. For the indefinite curtailments that you announced, are you planning on dismantling any of the sites, or will they both be potential restart candidates when housing eventually recovers?
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
You know, hey, Amir, we’ve not made any plans to do anything with the sites other than curtail them at this point. Like our other indefinite curtailments, though, for us to contemplate a restart, the assets that we’d have available, you really need a number of things in place. First off, you need a demand environment that would support that additional volume. You need the right fiber supply and residual market conditions. And then really, you need a view that in the next down cycle, what are the things that would be different?
What investments [are] needed? What would you do differently? And I would say, really against that backdrop, Chris kind of covered this early on. One of the questions, you know, we would be looking for less expensive ways to reinforce existing assets first. So again, no plans to change anything in the short term, but the bar is pretty high for a restart.
Amir Patel (Analyst)
Fair enough, Sean. Just turning to your European panel business, any, maybe, granularity you can give on how demand conditions there vary by some of the key geographic or product end markets?
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Yeah, of course. It’s a wide, diverse market over there. First off, I would say as we looked at Q3 versus Q2, we had a number. Every one of our mills had their annual maintenance shutdown through that period. So there were some extraordinary things that impacted volume. Beyond that, over the summer, the weather was extremely hot over there. We think that had some impact on demand. As we see things move into Q3, moving into Q4, I’d say it’s kind of a mix across Europe. You know, probably the area where we’re seeing some structural change is the UK with more conversion to timber frame, and that’s using some incremental OSB, saying that. I think it’s a pretty mixed, difficult macro outlook over in Europe as well. But our assets, as I’ve mentioned on previous calls, we have good assets and we’re well positioned from a raw material base in terms of supporting those markets as we kind of work through uneven demand conditions.
Amir Patel (Analyst)
Great. Thanks, Sean. That’s all I had. I’ll turn it over.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thanks, Amir.
OPERATOR
Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, should you have a question, please press star one. Your next question comes from Matthew McKellar with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Matthew McKellar (Analyst)
Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I think you noted that you’re at the end of an investment cycle here and with that, how do you have us think about the outlook for capital spend over the next couple of years? If this environment persists, it sounds like you have some opportunities to deploy capital in maybe smaller increments to expand some capacity. I wouldn’t maybe think you need that today, but is there any more significant projects that could still make sense if we’re stuck here for, say, another couple years?
Chris Ferostick (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer)
Yeah, thanks, Matthew. And I think as Sean and I both have mentioned, right, there’s been a lot of projects that have been on the go and, frankly, our ability to invest countercyclically here through the downturn I think has, over the much longer term, proved to be an advantage for us, in that we’re not sitting on a bunch of deferred maintenance or anything like that. We’ve been able to maintain our assets quite well, invest where it makes sense and then also, where difficult decisions are required like they were yesterday, we’re able to sort of mitigate the impact on our customers through that capital spend.
That being said, a lot of those projects have either wound down or are in the process of winding down and we’re turning up the operationalization of those. And that’s also been a little bit of a drag on us as we go through this process of all these startups on the things that we’ve spent; that does have an impact. But I think going forward, and as I mentioned, I think we’ll be out here before the end of the year with some guidance on capital and shipments.
As we contemplate next year and things come into focus, I would expect that you’ll see our capex come down fairly significantly next year. And as I said, we’ll be out with that probably before the end of the year for you, but it’s largely going to be focused on maintaining the platform. I just don’t think there are huge strategic capital things that are in the hopper that are imminently going to be executed here.
Matthew McKellar (Analyst)
Great, very helpful, thanks for the detail there. And then second for me, there was a comment in the MD&A about less competition for logs in the South in your procurement regions, but also that you saw limited availability of harvesting crew and hauling capacity with some suppliers parking their equipment, which I guess was largely due to high diesel prices and other inflationary operating cost pressures. Could you maybe just provide a bit more perspective?
Were those contractors who parked equipment not able to pass along the changes in their diesel prices fast enough, and is this essentially transitory, or is there some risk here of some kind of more structural attrition of capacity that could be a constraint down the road? Thank you.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Yeah, you bet, Matthew. You know, I’ll take that one. Maybe just a few comments. So your first kind of comment there on some of the structural kind of changes, I think that’s largely related to OSB at pulpwood, if you will. As pulp mill closures happen, markets for pulpwood are reduced, and so there’s—as costs increase—an ability, somewhat of an ability, for stumpage to adjust and can help control that cost on a deliberate basis. I would say the other comment on contractors parking and that type of thing, that is very regionalized. I think there were a couple of examples of that, and it’s not widespread. It really depends on alignment of that regional market demand, in this case for sawmills, and what landowners are prepared to sell that timber for. And when those things don’t align—contractors don’t have the ability to pass on fuel costs and mills are not prepared to buy at elevated prices because of the lumber market—then you do have a period where there is some supply disruption.
I think that, again, when the right set of conditions are in place, that sorts itself out. And I think contractors ebb and flow like our sawmills do, like our customers do, depending on market conditions.
Matthew McKellar (Analyst)
Really helpful. Thanks for the perspective. I’ll turn it back.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thanks, Matthew.
OPERATOR
There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Shaun for closing remarks.
Sean McLaren (President and Chief Executive Officer)
Thank you, Joel. As always, Chris and I are available to respond to further questions, as is Anil Aggarwala, our director of treasury and investor relations. Thank you for your participation today. Stay well, and we look forward to reporting on our progress next quarter.
OPERATOR
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.
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